S2 EP011 | Joyride With Expatriates – When Best In French Meets The World

[00:00:00] INTRODUCTION

[00:00:00]

[00:00:05] Taty Fittipaldi: Hello and welcome to The Leadership Nest podcast. This is season two of the global leadership podcast that combines stories, knowledge and science to soar the leadership in you. I’m your host Taty Fittipaldi. During this season, we invited 20 different expatriates from around the world to share their stories, their learning journeys, and their tips to make you a better leader and an inspired person. You can also watch the live interviews on our YouTube channel! Search for Coaching Expatriates® channel, then select the playlist called Joyride With Expatriates.

[00:00:43] Taty Fittipaldi: In today’s episode, we will talk with Amelie Papin, who originally comes from France and had the opportunity to live in the U.S., Hong Kong, China, Spain and Switzerland. Here is her [00:01:00] story.

[00:01:00] JOYRIDE WITH AN EXPATRIATE

(This section’s transcript was AI-generated and may contain errors)

[00:01:00] Taty Fittipaldi: So Emily, welcome to our show.

[00:01:04] Amelie Papin: Hi, Tati. Thank you for having me. I’m so happy to be here.

[00:01:08] Taty Fittipaldi: I’m happy too. So I want to start, I want to pre frame the show with something awesome that I saw today. So look at here.

[00:01:16] Amelie Papin: Wow.

[00:01:18] Taty Fittipaldi: We are here for a reason, right?

[00:01:23] Amelie Papin: Yes, we are. We are.

[00:01:24] Taty Fittipaldi: Awesome, right? Reframe for our show. So good.

[00:01:28] Taty Fittipaldi: I love it. That’s, awesome starting note. So how about we start by you sharing your background and some of the stories about expatriation. Why you ended up having those, uh, experiences. So tell me, tell us a little bit about that.

[00:01:45] Amelie Papin: Sure. Um, so I was born in France with a Swiss heritage.

[00:01:50] Amelie Papin: So both my parents are French and on my mom’s side, they’re Swiss. Uh, I’m an expat child. Uh, my dad, he worked for a multinational company [00:02:00] and I was very lucky because I got to grow up in very, Different countries. I grew up living in the U. S. Um, in Hong Kong in Switzerland. So I got exposed to a lot of different cultures.

[00:02:13] Amelie Papin: And, um, you know, I just got used to living abroad. So naturally, I decided to do international business. Um, and management and, uh, I studied in France, but I also did Erasmus studies in Spain and I got to do really cool internships both in France and in Spain. And, um, you know, when I graduated, I was kind of in between two worlds.

[00:02:36] Amelie Papin: I was hesitant between going back to the U S and going to, uh, Asia. And I had this really amazing opportunity come my way and I Go to, I was able to go to China for six months and that was just a fabulous experience. And after that, you know, uh, I had the opportunity to go back to France again and work between China and France.[00:03:00]

[00:03:00] Amelie Papin: And I just felt I had started something with China that I hadn’t really finished. So I decided to quit the job that I had there in France and move back to China. And I, and I ended up staying 10 years.

[00:03:13] Taty Fittipaldi: Oh, that’s. Awesome. Wow. That’s an interesting story. So you have a wide variety of experiences in very different cultures, right?

[00:03:23] Taty Fittipaldi: So, so tell me, um, about this expatriation experiences, what did you miss when you were there? What did you miss from your country and, and what were the things that you didn’t miss?

[00:03:37] Amelie Papin: Oh, that’s a very good question. I, I think, you know, we went back to France every year, so I got to see my family. Um, but I got used to being away from, you know, my grandparents and, and my friends.

[00:03:50] Amelie Papin: Um, and I think that basically, you know, I was, I grew up in the U. S. You know, so I had my primary [00:04:00] education that was there and then I actually started the school system. The French school system in Hong Kong, um, that I pursued afterwards in Switzerland. So I think that, you know, I gained a little bit of everything from every culture and What I miss today from all these different countries is, you know, I guess for China, it’s the food because you don’t get real Chinese food outside of China.

[00:04:24] Amelie Papin: Um, and then what else? Uh, I think I really miss the laid back and very friendly atmosphere from California where I grew up, you know, sunny California was. It’s everybody’s very welcoming and very nice. Um, and I think for Switzerland, it’s, you know, the really beautiful sceneries. We got to ski in some just amazing parts of the country.

[00:04:50] Amelie Papin: Um, and I think for Spain, it’s the food as well. I love food. Um, and it’s just very, I know, right? So it’s just, you know, [00:05:00] the warm atmosphere and the sunny vibes. Uh, so that’s, I would say what I miss. What I don’t miss, there’s not a lot of things that I don’t miss because I think I blend in pretty easily everywhere, but like for, I think for China, for instance, I don’t miss the pollution and, um, you know, having to use a VPN to connect to a lot of things online.

[00:05:24] Taty Fittipaldi: Yeah.

[00:05:25] Amelie Papin: Yeah. So having that, you know, I don’t miss being restricted on, on that end. Um, So yeah, yeah, it’s uh, I’d love to.

[00:05:34] Taty Fittipaldi: And when you say that, you say because they impose a lot of restrictions in terms of the access. That’s what you mean?

[00:05:41] Amelie Papin: Yeah, just for connecting to, you know, websites that we’re used to connecting to back here.

[00:05:46] Amelie Papin: Um, you need a VPN and external connection to go to, to use Google, Facebook, Instagram, and everything.

[00:05:53] Taty Fittipaldi: Really, so other people are not allowed to use those things?

[00:05:56] Amelie Papin: Exactly. Like if you don’t have a VPN, you, you can’t go [00:06:00] on a lot of social media and, So, there’s a lot of news that you can’t read. So, that’s a very helpful tool and a lot of people have one to just be able to counter that.

[00:06:09] Taty Fittipaldi: Do you have to apply to, to, to have a VPN, to be allowed to use a VPN?

[00:06:14] Amelie Papin: No, I mean, it’s a paid service and there are very different. Oh, so you can. VPNs available. So, you, you buy it online. Yeah.

[00:06:21] Taty Fittipaldi: Gotcha. Okay. So in these countries that you said you were able to blend in, etc. So in these countries… so I imagine it wasn’t that hard for you based on this comment, but I just wanted to understand what was your biggest challenge or a cultural shock. Either one or all of them. What was the biggest shock?

[00:06:43] Amelie Papin: There were a few, but I would say, you know, in China, it was really learning the language. Like I had learned Chinese a little bit before going there. But, you know, it’s so different when you get there. I mean, luckily I chose like an [00:07:00] immersion program, you know? So I was welcomed at the airport, um, by somebody who didn’t speak Chinese, who didn’t speak English.

[00:07:06] Amelie Papin: Right. But he was there welcoming me. So I wasn’t alone at the airport. And then I had someone guide me to my apartment and take me to my first day of work. Um, but on a daily basis, speaking Chinese was, was difficult. Right. Um, I actually have a very funny story, which is, um, so this was the very first year in China and I was not very good with the tones in Mandarin.

[00:07:31] Amelie Papin: And, um, I had, I was just starting to make a living, right. And I wanted to go to the French supermarket to buy some homemade soup, um, because I was a bit lazy and I didn’t want to make my own. And that’s what you find easily in French supermarkets. And so I asked the lady, cause the shop was huge, like, where can I find soup?

[00:07:52] Amelie Papin: And I ended up in the sweets corner, like, you know, where you buy sweets and sugar. And I was so confused [00:08:00] and she was, she just left. And I was like, okay, I’m not going to find any soup here. And then I realized I just hadn’t pronounced the word right. Right. So when you say, um, Soup. It’s tongue. And when you say sweets, it’s tongue.

[00:08:15] Amelie Papin: And so clearly I hadn’t said that right. And you know, that happens all the time in China. You it’s the same word, but with a different tone. So that that was challenging.

[00:08:27] Taty Fittipaldi: That’s super interesting.

[00:08:29] Amelie Papin: Yeah. Um, and I had a similar experience in in Spain. Actually, I worked in a company where no one spoke English.

[00:08:38] Amelie Papin: No one spoke French. And I had No other choice than to speak Spanish. And luckily I had learned quite a lot of Spanish, um, back in school. So it was just a matter of practicing it and. I got into the rhythm a bit more quickly than in China, because Spanish, you know, when you’re French is a bit easier to speak.

[00:08:58] Taty Fittipaldi: There are some words, [00:09:00] you know, yeah.

[00:09:01] Amelie Papin: Exactly, exactly. Uh, so, but it was still very tiring, you know, you have to focus, you have to listen, you have to pay attention a lot, and it requires a lot of energy. Yeah. Um, so I would say. Really that like the first few months, both in Spain and in China, where I was so tired, I would go to bed really early and, uh, I would sleep a lot.

[00:09:25] Taty Fittipaldi: You bet. No, it’s, it’s no wonder. It’s really tiring to speak a different, to be in a different culture and to speak a different , language is, it’s really tiring. It requires all our brain power. So yeah, so no wonder you were tired. Absolutely. and tell me, so you are, a wellness and mental fitness coach. You’re working with French folks, helping them to repatriate into France again. So, tell me a little bit about what are the tough things that you’re or some of the things [00:10:00] your clients go through.

[00:10:02] Amelie Papin: Well, you know, they have the obvious challenges of, you know, having to do all the administrative and logistical things of, you know, leaving your home host country and moving back.

[00:10:13] Amelie Papin: Those are things I don’t take care of, but That whole process is very stressful, right?

[00:10:18] Amelie Papin: And usually you’re very, you have your company helping you, or you have a lot, you have agencies or you find tips online on, you know, how to move back and, you know, how to open a bank account when you get into France or, you know, start the social security system and all that, but you’re never really mentally prepared for the reverse.

[00:10:36] Amelie Papin: culture shock of, you know, you’re French, but you’re a bit different because you, you grew, right? You gained experiences all over the world and, um, you’ve, you’ve, you’ve changed a lot. Um, and so they’re very anxious. Um, they’re, they’re scared that they’re not going to fit in. Um, they [00:11:00] struggle to connect with family and friends crew.

[00:11:03] Amelie Papin: If they haven’t been abroad, they don’t really understand what it’s like to come back to your home country. Um, and you know, they, they kind of question their own identity and, and their values as well. Uh, so I help them to just, you know, take a step back, appreciate their experience abroad, appreciate who they have become, and just be very comfortable with who they are.

[00:11:26] Amelie Papin: And just realign with the different values that they’ve, they’ve built and just take things step by step.

[00:11:34] Taty Fittipaldi: Uh

[00:11:35] Amelie Papin: you know, regain a positive outlook, try to be curious. You know, usually when you go abroad to a new country, you’re very curious, you know, you’re in awe with everything, but when you come back to your home country, you’re kind of like, Oh, I know everything already.

[00:11:48] Amelie Papin: And, you know, mindset

[00:11:49] Taty Fittipaldi: for some reason. Yeah. Yeah. That’s, that’s true. That’s so true. Yeah.

[00:11:54] Amelie Papin: Yeah. And you’re big. You know, maybe I have a tendency of being a bit judgmental. And so the idea is really [00:12:00] to, to just help them just relax a bit in terms of what it is to come back home and just be comfortable with the fact that they have changed.

[00:12:08] Amelie Papin: Maybe some things in France haven’t changed, which sometimes is very difficult to cope with. And just to, you know, appreciate that they’ve gained experience. That they can actually bring back to France, both in their personal and professional life, that they’re, you know, they’re very rich with a lot of things.

[00:12:26] Taty Fittipaldi: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah , and sometimes, it’s not that bad to go back and revaluate our values. You know, it’s hard, right? It’s hard to do it, especially in this context, but it’s not a bad thing. I think it’s, it’s actually a great opportunity. And , so it’s awesome that you help them shift back this mindset to a growth mentality and being curious. Awesome.

[00:12:49] Amelie Papin: Exactly. Yeah. And, you know, just really building that awareness of, you know, how can you flex your muscles and just look at things from a different angle because they, their [00:13:00] perspectives have changed for sure. So, you know, it’s just building that power to, to appreciate everything that life has given to them and, um, you know, just creating new habits, uh, so that they serve them more than they, you know, sabotage themselves.

[00:13:17] Taty Fittipaldi: It’s true. That’s true. So, when you came back to France, what was your most challenging repatriation aspect?

[00:13:28] Amelie Papin: Uh, so I, yeah, there, there have been a few because I came back to France at different times of my life. Um, the first time was when I was 16 and I had left France when I was five.

[00:13:39] Amelie Papin: Right. So that was a long time abroad. And like I said, we, we, we came back to France every summer, but it’s a, it’s very different when you come back for the summer and when you actually move back. Um, and I had, you know, I have, I had all these, I had mainly American cultural references, you know, American TV shows or, or American songs and movies.

[00:13:59] Amelie Papin: You [00:14:00] know, I, I watched Sesame street and Garfield and the golden girls and the Cosby show. Nobody knew about those here. And, you know, I remember the first parties as a teenager and they would put on music and I was like, never heard of these songs before.

[00:14:18] Taty Fittipaldi: Everybody’s singing along and you are like quiet, right?

[00:14:21] Amelie Papin: Yeah, exactly. You’re kind of like, okay, I’m going to try to move to these beats. And it felt a bit lonely at first, you know, it felt, I felt a bit Isolated because I couldn’t understand why they were, you know, having so much fun and no one could relate to what I had experienced, uh, as well. So it was a bit, you know, it was a bit complicated at the beginning, but, you know, gradually you get used to, you know, the songs and the shows and everything.

[00:14:50] Amelie Papin: And I actually realized afterwards that we had watched the same movies, but since. I had watched them in English and they had watched it in French with a different title. You know, [00:15:00] I sometimes I was like, no, I’ve never seen this movie. But actually I had, so it was, it was, you know, a bit confusing and, you know, you, you get used to it.

[00:15:08] Amelie Papin: You adapt and, um, I think, so that was really as a younger, um, as a young, uh, teenager. Um, and then most recently, two years ago, when I moved back, um, after 10 years in China, that was a big chapter of my life. And the thing that struck me is that in China, you do everything with your phone, right? You pay your taxi with your phone.

[00:15:31] Amelie Papin: You pay your groceries with your phone. You pay your plane ticket with your phone. You do everything with your phone.

[00:15:36] Taty Fittipaldi: They’re very connected with technology.

[00:15:39] Amelie Papin: Always, always. And here people were still using checks or they were using cash. And I remember like going to the bake, the boulangerie, you know, to the bread shop and wanting to buy a baguette, which is, you know, less than three euros.

[00:15:55] Amelie Papin: And they would ask me for cash, at least before the COVID era, right? [00:16:00] And I would be like, I don’t have any cash. So I’d have to leave the shop, go to the ATM, take money out, and then come back and pay for my groceries. Uh, so that was, you know, it takes a bit of getting used to, um, and checks as well. People still use checks.

[00:16:15] Amelie Papin: I hadn’t used checks in years. Um, so these aren’t big challenges, but still, you know, um, it’s Little, little things to get used to.

[00:16:23] Taty Fittipaldi: You have to change the mindset because you have to change little habits like going to the ATM. Yeah, makes sense. Yeah.

[00:16:30] Amelie Papin: Things like that. And, well, luckily, you know, my parents have been living here for a while, and so they helped me out with all the administrative, um, processes because I was completely lost.

[00:16:38] Amelie Papin: Like even the, the French, um, employment agency name had changed. So my dad, when I tell him. Oh, I need, I probably need to contact that agency’s like, that’s not how we call it anymore.

[00:16:53] Amelie Papin: So yeah, things like that, um, made it, you know, I had to laugh about it because, you know, what can you [00:17:00] do? You, you’ve been away and things have, Things are different, so you just need to get used to

[00:17:06] Taty Fittipaldi: Sounds like a good tip that you could give in terms of repatriation is having the support of someone who, you know, has been here while you were gone and have them help you out with some of these things.

[00:17:20] Taty Fittipaldi: So this, this could be a tip.

[00:17:22] Amelie Papin: Yeah, definitely. Definitely. I mean, if you can ask your friends, you’re here. And, um, you know, how do you do things, even for the, even if you’re afraid of sounding a bit silly, you know, or if you think they might judge you, just, you know, be very open. And they like, I have no idea how things work.

[00:17:39] Amelie Papin: Can you just remind me the basics or guide me to the right websites where I could maybe find the information or, you know, you have Facebook groups now with, um, ex expats and a lot of people share tips and all that, that has been very helpful for me too, as well. Um, um, another tip is, you know, see if [00:18:00] you can find other people who have lived abroad as well.

[00:18:02] Amelie Papin: And, um, just ask them, like, how was it for you? And what do I need to watch out for? Uh, I reconnected with some friends of mine who had lived in China and who moved back here and they, you know, they just took me to local restaurants and then they also helped me like, um, find the right internet, um, company to, to apply for internet, things like that.

[00:18:24] Amelie Papin: You know, it sounds really silly, but. You don’t know how things work anymore. So they’re your best companion

[00:18:31] Taty Fittipaldi: providers or who provides the service that, you know, you really need. Yeah. Yeah. It’s, it sounds simple, but it’s not, it’s actually, it’s really important to our daily lives.

[00:18:41] Taty Fittipaldi: Yeah, makes makes sense.

[00:18:43] Amelie Papin: Exactly. I remember asking all my friends, which internet provider are you with? Which electricity provider are you with? You know, what are the best deals in town? Like, I spent a lot of time asking questions, but everybody was very happy to help me. They were also very happy that I was [00:19:00] back.

[00:19:00] Amelie Papin: Uh, so that’s also something, you know, you’ve changed. People are also very happy that you’re back and they, uh, so a lot of them are very open to, to helping out because they know, okay, it might be a bit difficult. Um, at least, They won’t, they might not do it naturally or spontaneously. So I would say, you know, go, go ask them.

[00:19:19] Amelie Papin: Um, cause they, they might have an idea of what it is to come back. That you’re

[00:19:23] Taty Fittipaldi: in this, in this spot of, you know, of transition, let’s put it this way. Yeah,

[00:19:28] Amelie Papin: exactly. Exactly. Things are very obvious for them. So they, the obvious, they might actually not tell you, they might not state it. Right. So,

[00:19:37] Taty Fittipaldi: So, and since we’re talking about tips, what tips would you have for our audience about those cultures that you lived in so that we don’t have any misunderstandings, for example, like the soup misunderstanding.

[00:19:52] Amelie Papin: Oh, that yeah that requires getting a really good Chinese teacher. I have a very good one actually we’re still in contact so I’m happy to share [00:20:00] his contacts. Um, I would, I would just really say to be very open in the beginning and to ask, you know, professionally ask your colleagues, you know, what are, how are things done in the company?

[00:20:13] Amelie Papin: You know, what, what are the, the main, the main processes that are, um, that we need to follow? I think that works for any company that you go to anywhere in the world, but, you know, I think for For China, what was really different from what I had experienced in France, I mean, luckily I had worked in France with China, so I kind of had a a preview of how things would be, but in China, um, the boss usually is sitting in the middle of the table and he’s surrounded by the operational team and he speaks to the other boss, right?

[00:20:49] Amelie Papin: And the other boss has also his operational team. And usually the operational team doesn’t talk, right? It’s bosses, you know, managers, directors, they speak together. [00:21:00] And the operational team are just really there to support him, you know, kind of like his, his or her wingman wing woman. Um, and that’s really important because I remember in my last job, I was working with our Chinese branches, and whenever I needed to go see a supplier, I needed the branch manager to be there, but also the operational team.

[00:21:20] Amelie Papin: And, you know, perhaps maybe someone from the technical team as well. Probably they wouldn’t say anything. But they needed to be present and especially the director, he needed to be involved in the discussion, even though I was the intermediary person, you know, working on the contract. Um, so that’s really something important to pay attention to in China.

[00:21:41] Taty Fittipaldi: It sounds like there is a hierarchy involved in this and you shouldn’t barge in. So you should pay attention to, you know, to status.

[00:21:50] Amelie Papin: Exactly. Yeah. In terms of meetings and negotiations, that’s really, really important. Um, what else? I think, you know, in China, [00:22:00] everything is very demanding in terms of your time.

[00:22:02] Amelie Papin: You’re always connected. Like we were saying, you know, your phone, everything is In your phone, but also people expect you to answer very quickly in France. They don’t expect that at all. You know, there’s a clearer boundary between work and personal life, maybe a little less now with COVID and, you know, working from home and home offices.

[00:22:24] Amelie Papin: Um, but in China, you’re expected to reply really fast. I remember I was. I was all anybody could reach out to me anytime and I could reach out to anybody even in the evening, even during the weekends, even during holidays, you know, there’s like, you never stop, you know, it’s 24 seven, except maybe for the Chinese holidays, like the main ones where everybody’s in family.

[00:22:46] Amelie Papin: And so we don’t, we don’t get in touch. But in France, there’s a You know, at the end of the day, you close your computer on Friday, you close your computer and you reopen it on Monday and you’re not expected to to look at work emails or [00:23:00] answer any work emails over the weekend. Um, so that’s something I really appreciate now that I’m back here in France, although there’s a slight difference that when you’re on your Uh, you’re a business owner, you’re an entrepreneur, obviously your, your timetable, your time schedule is a bit different.

[00:23:17] Amelie Papin: And you probably work a little bit more than when you’re an employee in a company. But, um, and again, once, once again, that might’ve changed also with COVID, you know, the, the, the lines are a bit more blurry now, um, but those are really differences that I’ve, I’ve noticed in terms of communication and, um, negotiation and, and, you know, personal time, professional time as well.

[00:23:42] Taty Fittipaldi: ,so since you’re talking about engagement, like how people engage in different places, do you have any take on how people engage differently in each of these countries that you’ve been to? Besides this aspect of connectivity of being, you know, so, so [00:24:00] connected or technologically more driven. How do people connect in each of these countries like, how do they relate to each other?

[00:24:11] Amelie Papin: Um, so, um, what I could say is that in terms of like working together, um, you know, once the decision has been made, for instance, in China to work on a project, everybody works together and it’s a real team effort.

[00:24:27] Amelie Papin: And I would say that maybe in France, we’re a bit more individualistic, you know, um, there’s less of this team effort. Um, although once again, as an entrepreneur, I’m used to working and collaborating with different people. So the dynamics are a bit different if you’re working solely in the corporate world or in the entrepreneurial world.

[00:24:47] Amelie Papin: Um, but a main difference that I’ve noticed as in China, there’s no real agenda to things. And actually, even when you sign a contract, things can change like an hour before You actually go through the meeting or you start the [00:25:00] project. Um, and things change really, really quickly. Whereas in France, we plan things ahead of time.

[00:25:07] Amelie Papin: We have an agenda and we actually stick to it. So, you know what to expect. Whereas in China, You never really know what’s going to happen. You know things might change and you just never really know when. Um, so it could be a bit, you know, you can feel a bit insecure in China. After a while you get used to it, you know, used to knowing that there’s, there might be changes.

[00:25:31] Amelie Papin: Uh, whereas in France, Yeah, your things are well known in advance and sometimes plan things even six months or a year ahead. So things are very laid out and very clear for everybody. And I would say there’s a lot of collaboration tools for everybody to work together. Whereas, perhaps in China. It’s really like the directors that work together.

[00:25:54] Amelie Papin: And, you know, you don’t have a lot of. tools where everybody chips in. Um, [00:26:00] so yeah, does that answer your question?

[00:26:03] Taty Fittipaldi: Yes, absolutely. No, that’s amazing. That’s really interesting. So let’s shift gears a little bit and let’s talk about discrimination. Have you, suffered any discrimination in any of these places that you’ve been expatriated to because of your origin. So tell us a little bit about your perspective on that.

[00:26:26] Amelie Papin: I’ve never suffered any discrimination per se, um, or as I wouldn’t call that discrimination. I think that I felt welcomed everywhere I went. Um, I remember when we were in, in the States at the beginning, I didn’t speak a word of English. My parents spoke very little English as well.

[00:26:45] Amelie Papin: We had our neighbors come to our home and, you know, uh, give us a piece of cake to welcome us. Um, so that was simply amazing. And Um, I had to learn English and go to school at the same time. And, [00:27:00] you know, I was very well integrated, uh, in China as well. I think it’s more because I was, you know, I’m white, I have blonde hair and green eyes.

[00:27:10] Amelie Papin: You get stared at a lot. I don’t want, I wouldn’t say that’s discrimination, but that’s more. Curiosity.

[00:27:16] Taty Fittipaldi: Yeah. Right.

[00:27:18] Amelie Papin: Um, and I remember people taking pictures of me. Um, you know, sometimes without even asking me, I’d be looking at something and someone would just like, right. Oh, I’m looking at my phone here.

[00:27:29] Amelie Papin: Exactly. And they would take a picture, you know, and it’s almost as if they would put their hand around me, you know, and be like, we’re friends, you know? Um, so that was, You know, you’re a bit in the beginning, like, what is this? And then you, you know, you get used to it. Uh, and that was mainly in touristy places, I would say, you know, because you also get people from all over China who come to the Capitol or to, you know, the main cities to visit.

[00:27:53] Amelie Papin: So, um, it’s, it’s also a trip for them. Uh, so no, no real, um, [00:28:00] no real discrimination really just, I think. Plain curiosity. Uh, and I never, obviously you stick out, but you don’t. Yeah, no, I’ve never had any, um, any real challenges in that sense.

[00:28:15] Taty Fittipaldi: So I’m very curious to know your perspective about how did all these expectation experiences play out in terms of your growth? So how, how do they benefit you today?

[00:28:30] Amelie Papin: I think I’ve, they’re very humbling experiences, I would say. Um, I, I think they’ve taught me to be really curious and very open and acceptant of, you know, very tolerant of everybody’s differences, uh, to be very, I mean, to be less judgmental. I think that. My, the first times I came back to France, I felt a little bit judgmental towards French and, you know, two years ago, I, I really felt a very, a big shift [00:29:00] in, in my mindset, like I didn’t feel so judgmental towards French anymore, because, you know, I understood that they didn’t really, they didn’t have the experience that I had.

[00:29:10] Amelie Papin: So it was really more about being open and sharing and, you know, You know, even helping them create maybe the need or the interest of going abroad. Um, so I think that that’s, that’s really what my expatriations have taught me. Um, I, I love to travel. I think I have the travel bug thanks to my parents. You know, um, I’m, I’m looking forward to the, the bound, the borders reopening so that I can go see my friends in Germany and Hungary.

[00:29:41] Amelie Papin: And like, I. A lot of people who I met in China. They’re not all over the world, and I’m I just can’t wait to go visit them. Um, yeah, I would say that I’m just very comfortable wherever I go. Um, you know, when you’re used to going to countries that you don’t know and used to, you know, just [00:30:00] being observant and and, you know, learning to adapt.

[00:30:04] Amelie Papin: It’s kind of like you can adapt anywhere after that, you know, because you have Um, that awareness that things are different and that things it takes time also to get used to a new country or to a new place. And so I, I think it has developed a lot of my patience. Like I wasn’t very patient before and you know, over the years, maybe that’s also age and maturity, but you know, over the years, I guess I’ve become very patient with myself and with others.

[00:30:30] Amelie Papin: And it’s just really opened my mind to the fact that we’re just amazing human beings and we’ve got such rich cultures all over the world. I mean, even when I was in China, the differences between Beijing and Shanghai and all the other cities like it. There’s such diversity and, um, It’s just been really fascinating.

[00:30:51] Amelie Papin: Um, for me, it’s just been a very, um, very humbling experience.

[00:30:56] Taty Fittipaldi: You touched that point, a very interesting point, which is, [00:31:00] it’s sound, at least for me, my experience is, the more you are open and start to see, the more you see the differences, the more it seems you want to learn about new differences, right?

[00:31:09] Taty Fittipaldi: It’s almost like it sparks your curiosity. So it’s, so I, I can totally relate to the travel bug that you said. Like it’s, yeah, yeah, I can really relate.

[00:31:23] Amelie Papin: Yeah. And it’s something that, you know, it’s so important to keep that when you move back to your home country. You know, that curiosity for others.

[00:31:31] Amelie Papin: Absolutely. You know, to keep that is, is really because you meet people from different walks of life in your home country. Right. So it’s being aware of that and just being open to, uh, to the possibility of, you know, meeting new people. It just, it opens a lot of doors for your, for you as well. You know, it’s, it’s a lot about inclusion as well.

[00:31:52] Amelie Papin: You know, we’re with such diverse, um, mindset within the same country. So there’s a lot to explore. [00:32:00]

[00:32:00] Taty Fittipaldi: Absolutely, absolutely. And, so my next question actually is a little bit different. And I’ve been, I started this since the last episode because a lot of people have been asking me about this. So I wanted you to share either one or a few hand gestures that are very common in, in France.

[00:32:22] Taty Fittipaldi: And just to give you a flavor, so I’m going to share a few from Brazil. So for example, if you want to say that, you know, something is delicious, you might say, you might make this gesture. Or if you want to say that something is delicious, or also something that is neat and clean, you can say, Oh, this is, This is really good.

[00:32:44] Taty Fittipaldi: And you do this gesture like this. So do you have anything that comes to your mind that is that is common in, in French?

[00:32:54] Amelie Papin: Actually, we also do that. We also, we also do that when we think something is delicious. So [00:33:00] that’s pretty cool. Um, also something that we do is, you know, I don’t care where it’s not my business.

[00:33:08] Amelie Papin: Yeah. Um, something. It is important not to do if you want to say, it’s okay, don’t do this. Because if you do this in France, it means zero, right? It means it doesn’t, uh, it doesn’t mean anything. Right. So okay. It would be more like this, right? Yeah. In Brazil.

[00:33:28] Taty Fittipaldi: Okay. Would be more like this. And this could be the middle finger or zero two in Brazil.

[00:33:32] Taty Fittipaldi: Yeah.

[00:33:33] Amelie Papin: Yeah. Okay. So I will be very careful if I go to Brazil. Um, and then this isn’t a hand gesture, but it’s something that’s very French is la bise. So when you kiss people, um, it’s also very Swiss. Uh, you know, I’m actually French with the Swiss heritage. So in France, you actually kiss on the cheek twice.

[00:33:55] Amelie Papin: Or four times, depending on the region. And in Switzerland, it’s [00:34:00] three times. So I get confused, you know, if I spend a lot of time in France, and then I meet something, someone who’s from Switzerland. I do two kisses, and he’s like, where’s my third kiss?

[00:34:08] Taty Fittipaldi: It’s so funny. It’s funny in Brazil we kiss too, like we kiss when we meet friends, we say hi with a kiss.

[00:34:16] Taty Fittipaldi: And it depends, depending on where in Brazil, because Brazil is really big, it either one, two or three, two. That’s quite interesting.

[00:34:24] Amelie Papin: It is. And obviously you wouldn’t kiss someone in a professional environment, environment, right? Usually we would shake hands. If you’re introduced by friends or if you’re meeting friends or family members, you would, you would kiss and even men would kiss on the cheek.

[00:34:40] Amelie Papin: Um, oh. Even men don’t, if they know each other

[00:34:42] Taty Fittipaldi: In Brazil, men don’t, don’t, usually they, they kiss, you know, if it’s, uh, another gender, but if, if it’s men to men, it’s just a, like a hug or, or something like that.

[00:34:52] Amelie Papin: Yeah, no. In France, same gender, uh, they, they kiss. Like my boyfriend and my brother in law, they [00:35:00] kiss.

[00:35:00] Amelie Papin: I have really good friends, they kiss. Well, not kiss on the lips. Once again, we need to be clear on that, but kiss on the cheeks.

[00:35:05] Taty Fittipaldi: Yeah, on the cheeks. Yeah. In Brazil, it’s on the cheeks too. Awesome. Awesome. So our last question before we wrap up is actually, what we’ve been doing since the start of the program, which is sharing a card from our Locus of Control deck.

[00:35:22] Taty Fittipaldi: And what’s gonna happen is, um, I’ll share the card with you. You’re going to read it out loud to the audience, and then you’re going to say whatever comes to your mind. How about that?

[00:35:36] Amelie Papin: Sounds good. All right. Shoot.

[00:35:38] Taty Fittipaldi: Okay.

[00:35:38] Amelie Papin: All right. Career. I decide what I focus on. I am in control of my life far away, far and away. The best prize that life has to offer is the chance to work hard at work worth doing. Theodore Roosevelt.

[00:35:59] Amelie Papin: That’s [00:36:00] a strong one. Huh, so what comes to my mind when I read that? Um, Hmm. Yeah, I think what comes to my mind is that there’s so much that we don’t control, but there’s so much that we can control, right? Hmm. You know, there’s so much that we can influence, and it’s really about our attitude, the way that we say things, the way we, you know, we act or we receive information and then, um, decide to move on with that information.

[00:36:38] Amelie Papin: Uh, so I think that’s really what comes to my mind, our capacity to be able to decide. You know, to distinguish what is in my control, what is not so that you can really spend more time and energy and, and your focus on what’s on what’s in your control, because, you know, then you’re, you’re, you’re fully responsible for [00:37:00] that, you’re not responsible for things that come your way, you’re responsible for, you know, okay, how do I.

[00:37:05] Amelie Papin: How do I welcome this information or this situation or this challenge? You know, I, I’m at choice. What, what do I want to do with what’s coming my way? And just being very, very open and very curious to, you know, what is this? What do I want to do with it? You know, how can, how can I move forward and, and just be happy with the decision that I make?

[00:37:27] Amelie Papin: And, or, you know, what can I learn? From from the situation. That’s that’s really what comes to my mind.

[00:37:33] Taty Fittipaldi: Absolutely. And it’s so interesting because the deck is exactly for that to help us see that in every topic right in every card in every topic that we have. Actually, it might seem like there is, we don’t have any control, but we always have control over something and we can do something about it.

[00:37:55] Taty Fittipaldi: It depends on, on our mindset, as you said, so that’s, you put it [00:38:00] brilliantly. Thank you. Thank you. That was awesome.

[00:38:03] Amelie Papin: Thank you. I love this card game. It’s amazing. You created this?

[00:38:07] Taty Fittipaldi: Yes, I, I did. I did. So it’s, 28 cards. Every card has a different topic. And, and I am going to launch a challenge, where we’re going to explore every day a different card like this and help us, see that actually, we are in control in the sense that we can focus on the things that are in our control and not, in other things.

[00:38:31] Taty Fittipaldi: And sometimes we worry about things that there is nothing we can do about, right? And then we, because we’re so focused on those things, we miss what we can do in the things that are in our control. So, yeah.

[00:38:45] Amelie Papin: Totally agree. Totally agree. Oh, that’s exciting. I’m like, congratulations.

[00:38:51] Amelie Papin: This is a really, really great tool, I think, to help shift perspectives. I’m looking forward to seeing more of it.

[00:38:58] Taty Fittipaldi: Thank you. Thank you so [00:39:00] much, Amelie. Thank you so much for being here, for sharing your story. so much for sharing your stories, your perspective. I really appreciate, I really am thankful and grateful for you.

[00:39:10] Taty Fittipaldi: And I really loved our time together.

[00:39:12] Amelie Papin: Oh, so did I. What time flies. Thank you so much for welcoming me. It’s been a pleasure and thank you for what you’re doing. Um, thank you for the great vibes that you’re sending also through these talks. Cause I’m feeling super energized just speaking with you. Oh, for what you’re doing and I hope that.

[00:39:31] Amelie Papin: I hope that the listeners will have, um, useful tips that will support them when they go abroad and, uh, or go, yeah, go to any other new country.

[00:39:40] Taty Fittipaldi: Absolutely. Thank you. Thank you so much.

[00:39:43] Amelie Papin: Thank you, Tati. Thank you so much.

[00:39:45]

[00:39:46] HIGHLIGHTS

[00:39:46] Taty Fittipaldi: This brings us to the end of this Leadership Nest episode. I trust you found value in acquiring insights that can elevate your decisions and performance in critical global leadership roles and situations. [00:40:00] Stay tuned for a next joy ride with expatriates interview! We promise to surprise you with new stories and concepts to help you learn more about international relocation, acclimation and cultural integrations.

[00:40:13] Taty Fittipaldi: Wherever you are in the globe, this is Taty Fittipaldi wishing you a beautiful day.

[00:40:19] Taty Fittipaldi: If you have any questions, you’d like us to answer in a future episode of this show, just go to speakpipe.com/tatyfittipaldi or click the link in the show notes, to leave us a brief audio message.

[00:40:37] Taty Fittipaldi: Make sure to visit us on our website www.theleadershipnest.com, where you can subscribe to our show anywhere podcasts are streamed, so you never miss the fun.

[00:40:50] Taty Fittipaldi: While there, if you find value in our show, you can also subscribe to our global leadership weekly newsletter from Coaching Expatriates®, where we deliver [00:41:00] bite-sized lessons on global leadership, decision-making, and cultural competence to help you learn how to think, relate and strategize in a whole different way as a global leader.

[00:41:12] Taty Fittipaldi: If you liked our show, you might want to check our online global executive leadership program. A nine week leadership development and learning system, that will help you lead internationally while making financially conscious and impactful business decisions.

[00:41:27] Taty Fittipaldi: Taty Fittipaldi is also available for private coaching. See the websites for more details at www.coachingexpatriates.com/executive-coaching.

[00:41:40] Taty Fittipaldi: Thanks for joining us this week on The Leadership Nest podcast. I trust you found value in acquiring insights that can elevate your performance in critical global leadership roles and situations.

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