S2 EP019 | Joyride With Expatriates – Imagine Denmark Souvenirs Being Brought To Singapore

[00:00:00] INTRODUCTION

[00:00:00]

[00:00:05] Taty Fittipaldi: Hello and welcome to The Leadership Nest podcast. This is season two of the global leadership podcast that combines stories, knowledge and science to soar the leadership in you. I’m your host Taty Fittipaldi. During this season, we invited 20 different expatriates from around the world to share their stories, their learning journeys, and their tips to make you a better leader and an inspired person. You can also watch the live interviews on our YouTube channel! Search for Coaching Expatriates® channel, then select the playlist called Joyride With Expatriates.

[00:00:43] Taty Fittipaldi: In today’s episode, we’ll talk with Kia Reimer, who originally comes from Denmark and had the opportunity to live in many countries and now in Singapore. Here is her story.

[00:00:58] JOYRIDE WITH AN EXPATRIATE

(This section’s transcript was AI-generated and may contain errors)

[00:00:58] Taty Fittipaldi: [00:01:00] Kia, welcome to our show. Welcome. I’m so happy to have you here.

[00:01:04] Kia Reimer: Thank you, Tessie, for having me. I’m so happy that we finally made this happen, and I’m happy to be on your podcast.

[00:01:11] Taty Fittipaldi: Oh, thank you. Thank you so much. I’m happy too! Look, how about we start, and you tell us a little bit about your background.

[00:01:18]

[00:01:18] Kia Reimer: Well, basically we started, uh, in Denmark where I’m from. In 2014, uh, we had, uh, it was a weekend.

[00:01:28] Kia Reimer: My husband, he came home from work and he said, I’ve been given two opportunities. One to go to, to France and work and one to go to Abu Dhabi. And I’ve always been wanting to live abroad. So for me, it was like a no brainer, you know, I could go either way. And, uh, uh, we, we only had the weekend to decide with, which is very not normal for, for, um, for an expat to, you know, normally we have more [00:02:00] time to decide.

[00:02:00] Kia Reimer: So, but we decided on Abu Dhabi because that was so far away from everything we knew. And, um, at the time my children were two and five. And I had a small startup company in Denmark, and, um, for me, it was easy to just uproot everything and, uh, and go from there. And after that, you know, we spent three years in Abu Dhabi and, uh, two years in Dubai, and then we had almost three years in the south of France.

[00:02:36] Kia Reimer: And then one year ago, we relocated to Singapore where we are now. And today my children are 11 and 14 and, um, yeah, we feel like we have finally, you know, landed here and, um, settled in. So, yeah, that’s a little bit about me apart from that on a personal note. I’m a runner, I’m an [00:03:00] entrepreneur. Um, and, uh, I’m set to have a very high energy, energy level.

[00:03:07] Kia Reimer: So I’m always doing something of some sort.

[00:03:10] Taty Fittipaldi: Wow. That’s quite a journey. Kia, that’s a lot of places, a lot of different experiences. I’m thrilled to hear about the stories. So let’s start by telling us what is the main challenge, the biggest challenge, the first time you went abroad. Okay. What was the biggest challenge in the adaptation process?

[00:03:30] Kia Reimer: Um, the first time we moved, um, I was completely and utterly surprised of it. You know, my role in this as an expat spouse, because obviously, um, you know, I had a small company. My partner were, you know, back in Denmark. I was moving to Abu Dhabi.

[00:03:53] Kia Reimer: I had two little children, but in the Middle East, it’s normal. You get help. And that is something that is [00:04:00] Not very normal in Denmark. So I thought that’s going to be a walk in the park. No problem. I can easily continue, um, with more or less my everyday life as I know it. Um, so the biggest, the absolute biggest surprise for me was how time consuming it is to be the.

[00:04:22] Kia Reimer: You could say the epicenter of everything, you know, for my husband, for my children, for family back home, for, you know, establishing new friends, to integrate my children, to make sure they had friends. And at the same time, you know, learning so many new ways of living. Uh, in Abu Dhabi, we were living in a small street.

[00:04:45] Kia Reimer: Um, where, you know, the neighbors were South African, on the other side, they were American. Across, we had a Lebanese family, and next to them, we had, uh, an Australian family. Next to them, again, we had a local family, [00:05:00] and down the road, we had an Italian family. So,

[00:05:04] Taty Fittipaldi: very diverse,

[00:05:06] Kia Reimer: immediate exposure to, it was, in many ways, amazing.

[00:05:11] Kia Reimer: But it was also tricky in the sense that when I just went out in the street as me and, you know, as I would normally do, I would have the eyes of God knows how many people, you know, how would you dress? How do you speak to people from South Africa as opposed to, as opposed to people from Australia or Lebanon or wherever, you know?

[00:05:33] Kia Reimer: And so that changed me a lot. Um, and it made me, you know, withdraw a little bit and just observe and, um, and that taught me a lot and it also changed my identity. So the whole process of understanding the great importance it was and still is to be the [00:06:00] spouse and the value that I. To, to make this, uh, adventure we had gone on a success, um, was kind of a surprise for me and I was clinging very hard on to, to my own identity and I did that while my identity also changed.

[00:06:21] Kia Reimer: So that was a huge surprise for me and that was something that I didn’t realize until maybe two, three, four years. Later when I can look back at everything, that was a big thing, really big thing and amazing as well.

[00:06:37] Taty Fittipaldi: That’s really interesting, you know, because when people go abroad, they sort of underestimate the importance that the spouse is going to have in terms of supporting the whole process to happen as you are saying.

[00:06:50] Taty Fittipaldi: So, it’s so interesting that you are bringing this up, the importance of the spouse as being the integrator of everybody and being the support of everybody. That’s, that’s really [00:07:00] interesting. And it’s also interesting that you mentioned about identity, because I think it’s something that happens with a lot of people too.

[00:07:06] Taty Fittipaldi: We, we are shaken by the experiences. In a way, in a good way, I would say, which, you know, bit by bit, uh, changes us, right? It’s changes us for the best, I would say.

[00:07:19] Kia Reimer: Definitely changes you for the better, but it also is, um, is a huge surprise. And I remember, you know, the first few times we went back to Denmark to visit family and friends.

[00:07:34] Kia Reimer: That was when it really became almost black and white how I had changed because Sitting down at a dinner table, I felt, you know, almost like, like an observant as opposed to someone who would just lean in and participate in a conversation. And, um, that was when I knew that I had a different [00:08:00] opinion about some of the discussions, you know, in families, you discuss everything, politics, religion, whatever it is.

[00:08:07] Kia Reimer: And I could just feel that I was no longer so in that Danish box. I was actually far from it. Um, and, uh, yeah, that was, um, that was really eye opening and that is something we have talked about many times. Uh, my husband and I after after we left. How you can feel alienated from, um, or alienated, but you, you feel different from your own culture.

[00:08:34] Kia Reimer: Yeah. Yeah,

[00:08:36] Taty Fittipaldi: absolutely. Yeah. So talking about family and dinner tables, et cetera. Tell me a fun story that you have during your adaptation process. It could be from, from any country. Tell us from, you know, one, one adaptation, fun story that you can share.

[00:08:54] Kia Reimer: When we moved to France, um, despite the fact of having lived in the Middle East, [00:09:00] where time has a complete different value, uh, as opposed to like a Danish person, where value is like, that’s key. It’s very high up there where it’s more time doesn’t have the same value. It depends on what you’re doing in the Middle East.

[00:09:18] Kia Reimer: And then we came to France. And, um, I remember thinking, okay, it’s back to Europe. I know this. I got this. And, um, I would continuously for more than a year show up to any appointments. on time thinking we’re back in Europe again. And, uh, after one year, I realized that, okay, people are not on time. It’s, it’s just the norm here is to not be on time.

[00:09:55] Kia Reimer: So just stop being on time. And for my running [00:10:00] training, I would be on time two, three times a week for my lessons, French lessons for, for everything. And it was consistent that it was just not on time. And, um, that was really, really fun. Something I look back at now and smile, but in this situation, I remember it frustrated me.

[00:10:20] Kia Reimer: Like I am here, you know, I’m showing up on time. I’m well prepared and everything.

[00:10:24] Taty Fittipaldi: Since you’re saying this is a fabulous topic, this is a fabulous topic, because… let’s define a little bit about on time, what on time means. So when you were in France and people wouldn’t show on time. What was the delay in minutes? How, so were they five minutes delayed, 30 minutes delayed, one hour delayed? How much was that?

[00:10:49] Kia Reimer: Yep. Yep. Um, I think, you know, if people were like 10 minutes late, they might send you a message. Oh, I’m [00:11:00] late or maybe not, um, depending a little bit on, on what it like French lessons.

[00:11:06] Kia Reimer: Okay. She would definitely notify me. I’m late, uh, running training. Sometimes, sometimes not, uh, social gatherings. No, not. I mean, um, And they will show

[00:11:20] Taty Fittipaldi: up after how many, how many minutes? So let’s say it’s a 1 p. m., it’s a 1 p. m. uh, social gathering. What time would they usually show up?

[00:11:32] Kia Reimer: If it was an informal lunch.

[00:11:34] Kia Reimer: Like, uh, 1 30, they would show up and sit down as if nothing had happened,

[00:11:41] Taty Fittipaldi: but at 2 o’clock or 1, 1 30, what time would they arrive?

[00:11:46] Kia Reimer: I think, uh, I think, yes, if like 1 30, they may or may not send a message to say, Oh, I’m slightly delayed because And it’s, it’s actually something that, you [00:12:00] know, on, on one note, it’s nice and fine because it allows you as well to get thought up in a moment or to, you know, see something, you know, going there where you want to stop and explore more because you don’t have to think that much about it, but it is so rooted in me from my Danish culture.

[00:12:22] Kia Reimer: That, you know, I have to be there on time and it stresses me ginormously if, um, if I’m not there on time. So, you know, going to neighbors houses for, um, for like a date night, um, drinks and dinner. Uh, whatever. And they would invite us, let’s say, around seven, and as Danish people, we would show up at seven, and they might not even be home to welcome us.

[00:12:54] Taty Fittipaldi: You know, I’m laughing because that would happen definitely in Brazil, you know. The [00:13:00] reason why I’m asking about time, like how many, how many minutes, is because, for example, in, in Latin America is, and especially in Brazil, is very common For you to have a gathering, let’s say 1 p. m. and people start to show one hour, maybe two hours later.

[00:13:17] Taty Fittipaldi: They’re not going to tell you, I am going to show one hour later. Actually, what people there think is that is super rude to be on time. It’s rude because you are going to arrive and the host wouldn’t even have the time to settle things down and organize things, etc.

[00:13:37] Taty Fittipaldi: Those who arrive on time are usually those who are very, very close to the host or, you know, to the family, uh, and, and they do so to help them out, settle and organize everything. So you see, I’m bringing this up this just to show to the audience that. Uh, time can be fluid as you said in Middle [00:14:00] East is very fluid and and is more rigid and linear in in Denmark and in countries with a lower context cultural pattern.

[00:14:09] Taty Fittipaldi: So it’s so interesting that you’re bringing this up because french people, when they come to Brazil, they are going to freak out as well. They’re going to say, why they delay so much. So it’s so interesting that depending on where you are in the culture the perception can be very different.

[00:14:29] Taty Fittipaldi: So, yeah. Thank you for bringing

[00:14:30] Kia Reimer: it. Very, very much. It’s, uh, yeah, there’s a huge difference. Um, yeah, everywhere. And we know it from, um, yeah, as you said, from the Middle East in, um, we have some good friends from, uh, they’re from Egypt and they used to host a lot of, uh, events and dinners throughout the year and, uh, she would make jokes with me and say, Oh, I always tell my husband to get dressed on time when I invite you [00:15:00] guys.

[00:15:03] Taty Fittipaldi: That’s really funny. Yeah. So talking about differences, that’s, that’s a good segue. So tell me about the communication differences between these, these different cultures. So how, um, do you communicate in Denmark versus how you, you communicate with these, uh, different cultures?

[00:15:23] Kia Reimer: Yeah, there’s a very, very big difference, um, actually from, from Denmark to, to all the cultures that, that we have been living in.

[00:15:33] Kia Reimer: Um, whereas in Denmark, you are again conscious of time. So you’re very straightforward. You’re to the point. Um, we use a lot of sarcasm. Um, you know, you could say, um, Oh, I hurt my hand. And then someone would say, Hey, Um, uh, you know, maybe I will give you a knee a [00:16:00] slap and you won’t be hurting that much in your hand, you know, and that would be normal Danish sarcasm, which can be kind of brutal.

[00:16:07] Kia Reimer: And, um, we don’t waste time, you know, with chit chatting. It’s very straightforward. And then you go to the Middle East. Where there’s a, there’s a lot of getting to know each other. And, um, it’s very normal again with time that you show up to a meeting and you wait around for an hour. And, um, but then when you start talking.

[00:16:36] Kia Reimer: You have to get to know each other. And, you know, as a Danish person, I remember, you know, the first many times when you left, you like, oh, that went really well, you know, um, they were agreeing with everything. And I think we see eye to eye on this, and then it would be silent after that. And you would go like, what happened?

[00:16:56] Kia Reimer: You would follow up, follow up until you [00:17:00] sort of start to learn that it’s a, it’s a slow process. Um, you have to get to know people and you have to get to know how to read between the lines. So the learning curve is, um, it’s very steep when you come directly from, from a Danish point of view. Um, and then when you go to France.

[00:17:23] Kia Reimer: Um, I lived in the south of France, I might point out, I think there is a difference definitely, um, to other parts of France. Um, the communication is, it’s hard to, to get a straight answer. And if you, if you call someone and say, can you give me a quote on a new roof for my house? They might not want to talk to you the first time, maybe not the second time, but then maybe the third time.

[00:17:58] Kia Reimer: Okay. They will have [00:18:00] a serious conversation with you. And again, with my Danish goggles that have now been nuanced by the Middle East, you know, you know, a step back, I’m patient, but still don’t, I still don’t understand what’s going on because. I’m here to pay you money. You know, I’m a paying client. Um, and, um, then you have to follow up.

[00:18:25] Kia Reimer: So as a client in France. You have to follow up, uh, signing my son up for, for football, I remember required me phoning, I, God knows how many times, then emailing, and then finally going down to the pub, where I was, you know, then given, you know, I don’t know how many pieces of paper signed up. Um, and then, you know, I had to follow up with, when do you want the money?

[00:18:53] Kia Reimer: When can you start? So it’s a very, it’s a very different form of communication. And, um, [00:19:00] yeah, that is really something you need to get, uh, you get adjusted to. Um, and then again, there was, um, The concept of time where they, they’re not so stressed, you know, they don’t, they’re not in a hurry. So for them, it’s not super urgent to respond because we can do it next week.

[00:19:20] Kia Reimer: And then moving to Singapore, which was again, uh, on a Danish note, a little bit of a relief because they are, they’re very timely and they respond to you. They are not as direct, um, but they are more time efficient. And, um, here you, you have to be a little more diplomatic. Again, there’s no room for sarcasm.

[00:19:50] Kia Reimer: You don’t crack a joke. And then there’s this whole saving face. So a good, a really good example is going to the doctors. [00:20:00] And if you question, you know, the diagnosis or medicine, whatever, just don’t do that in front of, of, uh, of the secretary or the nurse or anything. And if you have to do that, do it in a way that does not, um, diminish, you know, his choice or his decisions.

[00:20:21] Kia Reimer: And that is, again, it’s a new thing to learn, um, how do I do that? You know, how do I phrase it? What kind of sentences do I use? Um, but I would say generally here in Singapore, they’re, they’re very much. You know, on time and want to, you know, they try to do the best and, um, uh, and don’t we all like everybody does that.

[00:20:44] Kia Reimer: So it’s a huge difference and it is really, really a challenge to get, um, to get used to, and again, from a social point of view, there’s a big difference, uh, as well as to how you manage things from a work point of view, you can be more loose. [00:21:00] When it’s, uh, social, uh, especially with the younger generation here in Singapore, uh, but from a work point of view, um, don’t crack a joke.

[00:21:12] Kia Reimer: No room for that. Definitely.

[00:21:15] Taty Fittipaldi: ,This is interesting. This is very interesting. And it’s interesting because you, you had that journey in so many different places that have different Types of communication as and as you said, how they’re linear and how they’re fluid in terms of time.

[00:21:31] Taty Fittipaldi: So it’s also awesome in terms of learning how do I express. So you want to express you know it’s not that you are undermining their, for example in the doctor’s example it’s not that you’re saying that they’re less or anything like. That it’s just a normal question or a normal questioning line, right? Uh, but how we phrase things in different places and how we communicate and come across is, is different. So, such [00:22:00] a fabulous example. Thank you so much for bringing this, this up. So, you said before, you said before your, your, um, Something that I, I just wanted to bring again, which is your role as the spouse and how you supported everybody, et cetera.

[00:22:19] Taty Fittipaldi: But now let’s talk about Before you mentioned, Oh, I didn’t have much time to think about it, to prepare, etc. So let’s talk about the before. So in your opinion, what’s the connection between having a happy expatriation experience and preparing for this experience?

[00:22:40] Kia Reimer: For me, that is make it or break it. If, like, if you don’t prepare, if nobody, or I would rather say if nobody prepares you for this, because as with everything in life, we don’t live backwards. And when we go into something where we have no experience, We have no idea what [00:23:00] questions to ask. So you need to prepare in the sense of someone who’s a peer, someone who knows this.

[00:23:08] Kia Reimer: And I’m not talking about the practical stuff. You know, I’m not talking about the unpacking of movie boxes or the quotes from movie companies or changing your phone numbers. That’s where, that’s not. Where you end up in a very bad situation, where you end up in a very bad situation is when you are not prepared for what’s coming your way on an emotional side of things.

[00:23:36] Kia Reimer: And as I mentioned in the beginning, the fact that your identity is going to change. A lot of spouses, they leave behind a job, um, and happily thinking this, this is awesome. This is amazing. And it probably is for the 1st year, maybe even 2, but after that. What’s gonna happen then? Where’s your plan? What’s [00:24:00] gonna happen to you?

[00:24:01] Kia Reimer: What does it do to a marriage when you go from having a two stream income to only one being the breadwinner? How does the breadwinner feel? What kind of pressure is that? Is that a pressure? And for the other part, how do I feel validated for what I do when my validation is normally presented in the form of a paycheck or a bonus or a manager that comes and says, Hey, you’ve done an amazing job.

[00:24:36] Kia Reimer: Um, how does that change the dynamic in a marriage? And let me tell you, it changes ginormously. Um, because Your whole foundation as someone who brings money to the table is gone. So what you bring to the table [00:25:00] is, is not, it’s not calculated in the same way. And on the contrary, you turn out to be the one that keeps doing like this with the credit card because you pay for everything you pay for, uh, or not, you pay for everything, but you’re the one, you know, spending the money for the integration.

[00:25:19] Kia Reimer: Yeah. There are a gazillion million lunches you need to do to get to know people. You drink an insane amount of coffees to get to know people. You send your kids to summer camp. You yourself enroll in all sorts of things to get to know people. And you roam around in the city to get acquainted with everything.

[00:25:39] Kia Reimer: You do the groceries. You do the school uniforms. You do the blah, blah, blah, blah. The list goes on and on and on. So when, when you spend and spend and spend and spend, and then on the other hand, you have this, uh, your husband that is in an office, not exploring, not seeing, not everything, but making the money just to see that’s [00:26:00] going out.

[00:26:01] Kia Reimer: That is a conversation you need to have. And you also need to have a conversation about, um, how do you, how do you place value on that spouse role? Because if that, like, it’s the number one reason why expatriations, they fail, that is because the family is not thriving. And especially as a spouse, um, because there is, it’s a full time job to, to, to be a spouse.

[00:26:29] Kia Reimer: You wake up same time as everybody else, and your day doesn’t end until everybody, you know, is. Has everything they need and you have fulfilled yourself and everything. And at the same time, preparing for your own future is so important. Um, what is going to come for you? It takes about a year plus to get everything settled.

[00:26:56] Kia Reimer: But after that, you need to start, you know, looking [00:27:00] around, like, what am I going to do to keep myself going? You want to keep yourself relevant. You want Want to keep yourself happy, because you cannot keep giving and giving and giving, you know, to everybody at home, everybody where you are, to every new friendship, you need to load your load yourself.

[00:27:17] Kia Reimer: And again, also in terms of preparation, What is the loss of income? You have to do the math. What is the loss of pension? Do the math. And how do you secure your pension? How’s that done? Because if you go to bed every night and then there’s tension in your marriage, everybody’s under pressure and you start thinking, how am I going to cope if this ends up in a marriage?

[00:27:48] Kia Reimer: And I’ve seen that three times over these nine years. And they’ve been women, they could have been male spouses, women, after God knows how many years, all of a sudden, [00:28:00] they’re left with nothing. Nothing. Because what? There was nobody preparing them for the fact that, make sure that, and that, and that, and that is in place.

[00:28:11] Kia Reimer: And it also goes in respect to where are you going? What are your legal rights? You have to prepare for that. Your legal rights, and for instance, in the Middle East when you move there, and me being, I think, my card, my ID card said, housewife, that alone is a crime. In your face. Um, but under Sharia law at the time we were there, basically my husband, he could have said, you know what, I don’t like you anymore.

[00:28:44] Kia Reimer: And I’m going to, you know, tear your ID card apart and I’m going to keep the children here. And he could have sent me out of the country. And I could have never, ever seen my children anymore. You know, that is really putting it far out, but that could be worst case scenario. So you need to [00:29:00] prepare for that.

[00:29:00] Kia Reimer: Like what, what are the, the, the laws where you’re going? If you have a prenup, if you have Testament, if you have this or that, you need to verify that those papers are still valid and you’re going, and especially when you’re the spouse, because you typically, typically your rights are not the same as someone who has a work permit or employee pass or whatever they called it.

[00:29:22] Kia Reimer: Uh, so preparation, preparation, and this is just, I’m just scratching the surface. There’s so much more you need to prepare for, but you really need to prepare for it. And you need to, you know, look your spouse in the eyes and, and agree that this, this is a joint thing that you’re doing. Um, yeah. And here in Singapore, for instance, if I, um, um, I applied for a few jobs when we got here or I applied for many, I got a few, but then, you know, my salary are administered, or it’s to be decided.

[00:29:56] Kia Reimer: My, my salary was to be decided by the Minister of [00:30:00] Manpower, and they were not aligned with the companies that wanted to hire me. Hence, I, I came here. Even though, you know, I got the job, you know, I couldn’t get the job. So you are put in a tricky position, um, as a spouse.

[00:30:16] Taty Fittipaldi: Yeah. Preparation. Yeah, I agree. Preparation is key. I think that planning and preparation is the mother of all success. I, I totally agree. So yeah, since you mentioned about the spouse, I want to, this is a good segue for my next question. I see very few companies doing exactly that, preparing the spouse. So what happens is that they make an offer for their employee to have an international assignment, but they totally forget To give any training or preparation or support to the spouse.

[00:30:53] Taty Fittipaldi: So, so Kia, tell me what would you recommend to companies to help their employees [00:31:00] be supported, right? Because as you mentioned, when the family is okay, when the family is thriving, then the expatriation experience is much happier. So what would you recommend to corporations in terms of putting together a program to prepare the wife?

[00:31:19] Kia Reimer: yeah,

[00:31:19] Taty Fittipaldi: or the, or the spouse. Let’s not say wife. Let’s say spouse because it could be either way. Right.

[00:31:25] Kia Reimer: So I think, um, first and foremost, an expatriation is an investment and it’s regardless of what you invest in, you look at the whole, you know, ecosystem around an investment and it can even be like a simple thing, like my running shoes, I don’t just pick any running shoes, you know, off the shelf, you know, I do my research and everything.

[00:31:51] Kia Reimer: And for a company, first, you know, the first advice is to look at the statistics, look at the numbers, about [00:32:00] 40 percent of expatriations, they fail. The number one reason is that the spouse and, or the family is not thriving, right? So to avoid that, to support that, you know, um, look at the family, take an interest in the ecosystem around your investment.

[00:32:20] Kia Reimer: What, what kind of family is this? You’re an active family, or, you know, do they like to read books? Do they live in the countryside in the city? What can we do to try to land them and put them in the best place possible? So that would be number 1. Where do you place people? Um, because if you, if you’re a countryside person, and you have no desire whatsoever to live in the city, and you’re, you’re put in a small apartment in a bustling, bustling city, the chances are that the spouse.

[00:32:55] Kia Reimer: Is not going to thrive, let alone only because that she feels [00:33:00] stuck in this apartment, you know, maybe coming from a farm, uh, is, is huge. And, um, then there is simple things like validate them, give them a call. Hello. Hi, I am the human resource, or I am the manager of your. husband, wife, whatever it may be. I know you’re going to be moving soon.

[00:33:26] Kia Reimer: Um, you know, have a conversation, find out who they are. So whatever information you get, you can pass on to local human resource. So that local human resource can make a simple phone call saying, Hi Kia, I know you’re here in Singapore now. I know you’re a runner. I know you have a daughter that loves horse riding.

[00:33:48] Kia Reimer: And I know your son loves playing football. So, you know, I’ve, I’ve sent, I’ve, I’ve docked up a running club for you. And, you know, Here is a [00:34:00] maybe a stable for your daughter. Would you like to have lunch one day? You know, I can just give you the lowdown on a little bit of the city and maybe just get to know you.

[00:34:11] Kia Reimer: And then I know from from a corporate point of view, like, you might be thinking how you want to separate things. So I think, again, you should also be conscious about where this family coming from. And, you know, get to know the family, get to know the spouse. And let them know that you are also there for them. Check in with them from time to time, because as I said before, if you have equal value, but when, when, when you have equal value, you also want to, you know, you know, at least, you know, be seen and heard.

[00:34:45] Kia Reimer: And it’s difficult enough as a spouse to deliver 24 seven. But when decisions are to be made that influences your life, You don’t get a say and you don’t get a seat at the table. You just get to sit at home and [00:35:00] wait. And then, you know, are we going to move? Are we not? What’s going to happen now? Are you working more?

[00:35:07] Kia Reimer: Are you working less? Are you going to travel more? Are you going to travel less? You have nothing to say. Try to see them and then a lot of companies, luckily, you know, they offer, you know, a lump sum for education or, um, you know, try to help them as well to say, what are your interests? Um, I remember coming to France and, uh, wanting to do some courses and regardless of where I searched, everything was in French.

[00:35:35] Kia Reimer: So for me to try to find, I want to find somewhere where I can do a course in this. It was close to impossible, uh, because I came with a not speaking word of French. So some guidance and some help with, uh, with, you know, keeping yourself afloat. And then, um, like regular contact. And [00:36:00] as a last thing, and I know this is very uncommon, but this is something I will fight for in my company and in what I do today as an expat advisor.

[00:36:14] Kia Reimer: I think definitely, not I think, but spouses should be at least, they should be paid pension because this is a huge stressor for many spouses. The fact that you have to sort yourself out and you can do that, but to have some kind of validation for all the work you’re doing, because if you’re not thriving and you’re not doing what you’re doing, then that employee that you invested all these money in, he or she cannot go and do what you want them to do, and that is just period.

[00:36:54] Kia Reimer: That’s. A very short, uh, explanation and to, to make a point [00:37:00] that I am the most important support function for Michael, my husband, for him to go and do what he does. If I am not there, he cannot do that. And that’s, that’s just how it is. Full stop. Yeah.

[00:37:19] Taty Fittipaldi: It could be distracting for the employee when the support is not there. As you said, it can be distracting to the employee and they cannot perform as well.

[00:37:27] Kia Reimer: Yeah. And if I’m not there, he cannot travel. You know, there are, there are two children here as well. And if I am unhappy and that’s another big thing, if I’m unhappy, I have nowhere to go.

[00:37:39] Kia Reimer: The only person I talk to is my husband, who will come home after God knows how many hours of work. Right. You know, and then he has to listen to all my frustrations and, um, that creates friction in a marriage and it sort of wears out, you know, the [00:38:00] surplus on, on both sides. And, uh, I can vouch for the fact that it creates some very nasty, uh, arguments, um, that we have, you know, luckily surpassed and, and, you know, worked our way through.

[00:38:16] Kia Reimer: Um, and it’s again, it’s only when you go to the other side of everything, you out on the other side, you can look back and say, whoa, normally this. I would have talked to my, my, you know, my boss or my best friend or my mom or whatever, you know, about some of it. But because we’re here, there’s, there’s a 13, uh, seven hour time difference from here to Denmark.

[00:38:44] Kia Reimer: And because I don’t have a boss or, you know, a confidential third part, you know, that I can talk to about these things, I take everything on him. And, um, that, that is a huge burden for, for marriage. Definitely it is.

[00:38:59] Taty Fittipaldi: Yeah, [00:39:00] absolutely. That’s a lot of learning. That’s a good segue to my last question, which is what did your expatriation experience teach you?

[00:39:09] Taty Fittipaldi: If you could say, before you explain, if you could say in one word, what would that word be?

[00:39:14] Kia Reimer: One word would be, um, acceptance.

[00:39:19] Kia Reimer: Yeah.

[00:39:20] Taty Fittipaldi: So tell me more about it.

[00:39:22] Kia Reimer: Yeah. Um,

[00:39:24] Kia Reimer: I am accepting myself much more and I am accepting and have tolerance. And I’m super curious. about other cultures, other people, other religions, other ways of celebrating and doing value sense, um, I accept it. And I am more curious, um, than I am judgmental. And I’m not [00:40:00] proud to say, but Definitely when I lived in Denmark, I was very like, this is the way you do it.

[00:40:08] Kia Reimer: And that’s weird. And, oh, that’s different. I don’t like that. I totally, that was me. Um, I am no longer that at all. Um, I don’t look at people’s. Appearance or, um, yeah, I look at people’s appearance, but I don’t judge it. Um, I, I, um, I don’t judge, um, different hair or, you know, Indian clothing or Muslims or Jewish people.

[00:40:45] Kia Reimer: I, I don’t, I’m more interested in who is sitting next to me. Um, and that has been a huge gift in my life. Really, I’ve met so many fantastic people, um, just from sitting [00:41:00] down and getting rid of that filter, um, that I was going to say Denmark put on me. But I mean, you also have a choice yourself, of course, but that is.

[00:41:13] Kia Reimer: Definitely the biggest, um, the biggest thing acceptance. Yeah. And then I think also what I’ve learned over the last nine years is, um, it’s something you can never ever start to learn. It’s a free education. Um, I think actually it’s fair to say that I have a university degree in. In the, in, in something that doesn’t have a name, like an education that doesn’t have a name, um, because you can, like, it’s going traveling, you can buy the little books or read online about, oh, this is the country, this what you, you should do this and not that and blah, blah, blah.

[00:41:50] Kia Reimer: But once you set foot there, you will discover that, oh, it wasn’t quite like in the book or there are nuances here or, um, [00:42:00] so yeah, a huge gift.

[00:42:02] Taty Fittipaldi: Wow. That’s, that’s so inspiring. It’s really inspiring because it, it indeed changes us a lot and it help us indeed become a lot more open minded, less judgmental.

[00:42:14] Taty Fittipaldi: Wow. That’s, that’s such a good lesson. I love it.

[00:42:18] Taty Fittipaldi: Thank you so much. And so much for being in our show.

[00:42:21] Taty Fittipaldi: I really enjoyed our conversation.

[00:42:24] Kia Reimer: Yeah, I loved it. And I, uh, I love everything you do, you know, and I really enjoyed this conversation, uh, a lot. And, uh, thank you for, for your time here. Uh, that has really been amazing.

[00:42:36] Taty Fittipaldi: Thank you so much. Thank you for being in our show.

[00:42:39]

[00:42:40] HIGHLIGHTS

[00:42:40] Taty Fittipaldi: This brings us to the end of this Leadership Nest episode. I trust you found value in acquiring insights that can elevate your decisions and performance in critical global leadership roles and situations. Stay tuned for a next joy ride with expatriates interview! We promise to surprise you with new [00:43:00] stories and concepts to help you learn more about international relocation, acclimation and cultural integrations.

[00:43:07] Taty Fittipaldi: Wherever you are in the globe, this is Taty Fittipaldi wishing you a beautiful day.

[00:43:13] Taty Fittipaldi: If you have any questions, you’d like us to answer in a future episode of this show, just go to speakpipe.com/tatyfittipaldi or click the link in the show notes, to leave us a brief audio message.

[00:43:31] Taty Fittipaldi: Make sure to visit us on our website www.theleadershipnest.com, where you can subscribe to our show anywhere podcasts are streamed, so you never miss the fun.

[00:43:44] Taty Fittipaldi: While there, if you find value in our show, you can also subscribe to our global leadership weekly newsletter from Coaching Expatriates®, where we deliver bite-sized lessons on global leadership, decision-making, and cultural competence to help you [00:44:00] learn how to think, relate and strategize in a whole different way as a global leader.

[00:44:06] Taty Fittipaldi: If you liked our show, you might want to check our online global executive leadership program. A nine week leadership development and learning system, that will help you lead internationally while making financially conscious and impactful business decisions.

[00:44:21] Taty Fittipaldi: Taty Fittipaldi is also available for private coaching. See the websites for more details at www.coachingexpatriates.com/executive-coaching.

[00:44:34] Taty Fittipaldi: Thanks for joining us this week on The Leadership Nest podcast. I trust you found value in acquiring insights that can elevate your performance in critical global leadership roles and situations.

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